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Royal Palms Owners Back to the Drawing Board After Contentious CB6 Meeting

Opponents armed with a petition including 121 signatures voiced concerns about noise, crowds, security, and loitering for the future Gowanus shuffleboard club.

Brooklyn shuffleboard enthusiasts will have to hold their biscuits a bit longer, following a contentious Community Board 6 meeting on Monday night.

In response to neighborhood concerns regarding noise, crowds, security, and loitering,  owners temporarily withdrew their liquor license application in order to revise the game plan.

"We feel the presence of this huge club will totally overwhelm the neighborhood and make it unlivable," said Michael Levin, who spoke on behalf of neighborhood residents and presented a petition including .

Royal Palms owners Jonathan Schnapp and Ashley Albert withdrew their application after a motion to have a capacity of 300 (pared down from just under 500), shuttle service from their location to public transit and vegetal soundproofing on the roof was going to be overwhelmingly denied by the committee. 

The size and capacity of the 17,000-square-foot space at 514 Union Street in Gowanus, combined with the owners lack of experience in the hospitality industry, fueled most of the debate throughout the evening. Also in question was the ambience of the club and whether it would leave masses of rowdy, drunken loiterers roaming the streets.

Schnapp told board members they want the place to "evoke the feeling of 1970s Florida" and to "keep the spirit of shuffleboard alive." They plan on creating shuffleboard leagues and bingo nights, want to have weddings and bar mitvahs, kids birthday parties and live music a few nights a week, which he described as a guy with a banjo, "not Jane's Addiction.

"We're definitely not going to be the ," he said in an attempt to differentiate themselves. "We're not looking to be Brooklyn Bowl."

Albert echoed that sentiment. "We see it as a place that can be a community center for all ages," she said, noting that the couple intends for the Royal Palms to be a "relaxed and mellow place."

One supporter, Kimberly Wetherell, a President St. resident in Park Slope, spoke to the gentle nature of the game and likened it to the Mirror Lake Club in St. Petersburg, Florida which was used in the movie Cocoon.

"It's oddly quiet," she said. "You hear a shoosh and click. It's a very gentle sport. It can only be a boon for the community. Thirty-five-year residents can go with their grandkids."

"17,000 sq feet is a scary amount of space and we understand that," Schnapp continued, but reminded board members that 7,000 square feet would be dedicated to shuffleboard courts.

He also stated that the pair are looking for a GM with "double digit" years of experience to manage the venue, as well as two security guards: one for ID checks and another for general security on the block. 

But residents were not persuaded. 

"It's the alcohol," said neighbor Rosemary Gomez. "You don't need the liquor license to have shuffleboard." Gomez also mentioned that with the recent opening of the , as well as a new beer hall on St. Marks, "the police are not going to be there" to keep loiterers in check. 

In the end, the committee felt there were "too many negatives in this project," as one member put it. Another said, "I don't think this fits. I think it's too big and will change the community."

But before board members could lay down their final vote, Schnapp and Albert withdrew their application. They will return to the drawing board and try again next month with an amended proposal.

"I'm disappointed," Schnapp told Patch afterward. "I'm still hoping we can come to an understanding with our neighbors. We're just trying to open a shuffleboard club. We'll keep working to come up with solutions that they're comfortable with."

Not serving alcohol, as Gomez suggested, was simply impossible from a revenue standpoint, the owners said.

Albert stated that the Royal Palms requires a liquor license in order to make it a viable business and she left undeterred: "For our neighbors, their solution is for us not to open. That's not an option."

Patti August 28, 2012 at 04:55 pm
Hey, hold on - isn't Park Slope filled with hipsters? Where would you like them to go? Shuffle Board is a great activity for the young and old. Don't know if alcohol is necessary for everyday use (profit margin on soda, etc. is pretty good) but for special occasions like weddings, bar mitvahs, and other such events can apply individually for a temporary license just for that event. I know this is allowed in other states and assume the same is possible in NY.
Carolyn August 28, 2012 at 05:34 pm
If you are concerned about noises and crowds, maybe New York City isn't the best place to call home. The shuffle board club is a great concept and would be a great addition to the neighborhood. I wonder if those 121 people have started up a petition to ban dancing in Brooklyn yet.
Eva Radke August 28, 2012 at 09:04 pm
I was there last night and I have never seen such a obviously slanted and snarky discourse. For every three "opposed" maybe one "pro" was called upon to speak in support of them.
(I hardly know these two and have met them once, I just think it's good for Gowanus, who needs as much help as it can get!) This is a great idea and the neighborhood would certainly benefit. The street is blighted and depressing and this would really bring life to it. It's shocking to hear their concerns and then actually see where the shuffleboard - SHUFFLEBOARD - club is located. They should be clamoring for such a place, but a bunch of anti-progress change-fearers are worried about 500 people barfing in their flower pots. Get real. It's not Mardi Gras. In these economic times, it's a shame to squash job-creating enterprises that will pump money in to the local economy and increase safety in the neighborhood. They spoke about crime...know what REALLY prevents crime? (not lack of alcohol) it's lack of jobs and lack of something to do and depressed environs. Gowanus is growing and starting to thrive and they are just going to have to embrace that and be happy something fun for all ages wants to grace their block, that frankly, could use a coat of paint and some vibrance.
Eva Radke August 28, 2012 at 09:15 pm
Hipsters are already all over Gowanus and they are opening new restaurants, retail, services and clubs - as well as paying rent. You may hate the ironic moustaches, but they also come with vim and vigor and create growth and implement ideas.
I roll my eyes at them, too in their skinny jeans and vintage, campy what nots, but they also are a huge part of building the future, not keeping us in the past. Bay Ridge is thattaway, Anthony.
Anthony August 29, 2012 at 02:03 pm
Referring to you reply earlier in this thread, how are hipsters a huge part of building the future here? What facts, numbers are you basing that assumption on? Because I can tell you, this neighborhood has thrived fine without them.
c k dexter-haven August 29, 2012 at 03:30 pm
yeah, anthony, i heard carroll gardens was awesome in the nineties. i remember it. you could get mugged on smith street any time of day!
this isn't about hipsters, and it would be short-sighted to reduce it to that. it's about gentrification, urban renewal and change. what would this neighborhood be without Frankies (or Patois, for that matter)? they were called hipsters and outsiders and yet, to many, Frankies put this neighborhood on the map and helped set in motion a lot of positive changes. of course, not all of the changes are good. do we need another Buschenshank or another Momofuku? : ) i'm not hugely in favor of the Royal Palms's plans, but i don't see how a strong dislike for hipsters provides any reason for rejecting their proposal, especially since the business would most likely improve their immediate surroundings. i've never heard of any civil unrest erupting out of a shuffleboard match. dialogue is a lot better than derision.
Jenny August 29, 2012 at 04:11 pm
nicely put, ck dexter-haven
Mark Smith August 30, 2012 at 01:35 am
amen
Mark Smith August 30, 2012 at 02:10 am
I was at the meeting, too. What I heard from the opposition was fear of change from a lot of longtime residents. They feel Gowanus is one of the few untainted sections left in Brooklyn. Their fear is a natural human instinct, as fear represents the unknown. But WHAT do they fear? On one level they fear sleepless nights due to noise they THINK will emit from the club; they fear lowlifes they THINK will be attracted to the club; they fear drugs, violence, vandalism, and, as one woman put it, "vomit all over my doorstep."
But on a deeper level I think they fear what we all fear: death. To them, this club represents displacement from their homes. To them, this club represents a progress in which they were not asked to participate. It represents their obsolescence. People are going to fight against that. It's human nature. BUT the residents are anticipating the worst sort of behavior from the patrons. Is there going to be noise? Sometimes, yes. Will there be people drinking late? Probably! Are these people going to be raping and looting and smashing windshields? Hardly. The kind of patrons this club will attract are GOOD CITIZENS, ones that are civilized, creative, educated, and ethical. These are the people who have been forging the new Brooklyn, one that is thriving, friendly, communal. These people are fueled by ingenuity and positivity (and organic coffee). If this club is successful, more like-minded people will open new businesses and Gowanus will be REBORN.
Patti August 30, 2012 at 02:05 pm
Thank you Mark for your clear thoughts and concise description of the issue.
PSgirl August 30, 2012 at 03:16 pm
How can you be so sure? "The kind of patrons this club will attract are GOOD CITIZENS, ones that are civilized, creative, educated, and ethical." Are you going to police everyone who goes there? get real
Anthony August 30, 2012 at 03:21 pm
So according to your answer, muggings and crimes have stopped in this neighborhood? Do you read the police blotter on this site or in local papers? Muggins are happening at an alarming rate in this neighborhood. If anything, the crime in the 2000s has been worse than the 1990s.
c k dexter-haven August 30, 2012 at 03:46 pm
i agree, there's definitely been a surge of crime in this neighborhood, especially over the summer. i've noticed it via blogs such as the patch, and seen it first hand.
more muggings, break-ins, unprovoked assaults on women... but, in my opinion, these crimes are happening city wide and are related to two conditions: the general decline of the u.s. economy (even though NYC has handled it pretty well) while it's also directly connected to a trend pointing to the increased use of smart phones (iphones, androids, etc). as i'm sure you've noticed, the targets of most of the muggings are folks on their phones as they exit the subway stations. are those folks necessarily hipsters? my landlord is 65 years old, fourth generation italian from the neighborhood, and he walks around with an android... the use of smart phones is widespread in carroll gardens. the rate of late night crime in the neighborhood is probably consistent with previous summers (when they always go up) and i imagine that we will see an increase in muggings in the area around the royal palms (should they be allowed to open) during the late hours. since we know that this is likely, then we also know that we can prevent it from happening: better street lighting, more police patrols, but most importantly, we can educate each other to put the damn phone away while walking home at night, thereby increasing your awareness of your surroundings and reducing your risk of being a crime victim. : )
Anthony August 31, 2012 at 08:52 am
You say, "more muggings, break-ins, unprovoked assaults on women... but, in my opinion, these crimes are happening city wide..."
Oh, so these crimes are happening city wide in 2012? OK. I agree with you. Now, earlier you said back in the 1990s, you would get mugged in Carroll Gardens. Well guess what, muggings were also a city wide problem in 1990. In fact, these will always be a problem when you live in a city with 10 million people. So, my question still remains unanswered, how have hipsters made Carroll Gardens safe? In general, how have they made this place better to live?
Patti August 31, 2012 at 01:49 pm
Anthony, What is your definition of "hipster"
Anthony August 31, 2012 at 03:04 pm
Google it, Patti.
Patti August 31, 2012 at 03:36 pm
I did, Anthony. That's why I asked you for your definition. As far as I can tell hipsters are not the criminals out there bringing down the neighbors. Actually, I know a few 25 year olds that could be named hipster. They are hard working, free thinking(they are not all liberals by the way), and spend money in the neighborhoods they live in. They stand up for what they believe and seek out the facts. So, I don't think hipsters will be out there causing a lot of trouble at the shuffleboard club; they will be playing shuffleboard. They are not the gun and knife carrying individuals.
Hugh Jassols August 31, 2012 at 03:48 pm
Eva they have brought so much into the neighborhood that they have a tendency to have landlords raise the rents by as much as 40% in under 8 years, have a tendency to have little understanding in the long term civil planning involved in neighborhoods and please let them stay in Gowanus and Park Slope, Bay Ridge doesn't need or want them.
Hugh Jassols August 31, 2012 at 03:52 pm
Problem is hipsters don't spend money, they are too busy paying the high rents they caused by moving into the neighborhood. Ask any cafe with free wifi. You see you have to sell a certain amount of food and drinks per hour to be profitable. Alcohol contains the highest per dollar profit per drink for a restaurant, bar or club so they need to be able to sell them $1.00 Blue Ribbons for $5.00 to recoup what they don't spend in food and soft drinks.
Hugh Jassols August 31, 2012 at 04:09 pm
Hipsters don't commit crime they attract the people that commit the crimes, Gowanus like Park Slope was a rough neighborhood but it wasn't the hipsters that changed it, it was the long time residents that got tired of the drugs and gangs along with the Guiliani administration and the NYPD that cleaned it up.
Hipsters have actually helped increase they crime in PS/Gowanus they walk around clueless with iPods and iPhones leaving doors and windows open, leaving cars parked for days on end in the same spot getting broken into, leaving window shades open for all to see what they have. Its on the Patch all the time in the police blotter if you have more than one Apple Laptop stolen from your apartment you're a hipster, if you leave cameras and computer equipment in your car for three days and find it broken into you're a hipster, if you go to a bar and leave you purse alone on a chair next to the door with you iPhone on the table and come back and its gone you're a hipster.
Patti August 31, 2012 at 05:26 pm
I see a lot of people doing stupid things as you mention above but its not only hipsters doing them. What attracts criminals is the fact that it is an upscale area no matter what subculture might be living there. BTW it was Mayor Dinkins who put the police back on the beat.
Hugh Jassols August 31, 2012 at 08:57 pm
When Dinkins was elected he brought in Lee Brown who started the community policing program that showed a lowering in crime on the streets in its first two years in operation, in the Subways Bratton from 1990 to 1992 enforced the fare evasion rule that dropped crime in the subways they then realized most of the criminals caught fare evading were also committing a lot of crime in the street. In 1994 Bratton came back and used the same tactic on the streets that he used in the subway system which had officers who were ticketing for minor offenses to check every ones ID's and bring in anyone without ID in for verification under a NYS law which says that police can detain you until you can verify who you say you are. The checking of all violators ID led to incarceration of a lot of criminals who had warrants nationwide and locally which helped bring down the crime. Crime dropped exponentially from 1994 through 1997 where they didn't see crime numbers that low in over 20yrs. I can say that both Mayors can claim the lowering of crime but the crime dropped the most effectively under Giuliani but even under his term there were some disgustingly bad incidents in the city and I am not talking about 9/11.
Jenny September 1, 2012 at 09:03 pm
so are you looking forward to shuffleboard as an addition or not? i realize that shuffleboard became a metaphor for other things in this discussion.
Hugh Jassols September 2, 2012 at 04:05 am
When Dinosaur BBQ comes to area after Whole Foods opens the whole area is going to be over run and changed forever or at least until the polar ice caps melt and flood all the low lying areas. I wonder if someone went and opened in one of those old warehouse lofts an S&M Club would there be a much complaining or would people just have a spanking good time?
Dan Holder September 2, 2012 at 01:37 pm
I'm happy to see that everyone is so comfortable categorizing, stereotyping, and then criticizing a group of people all of you would define differently. I didn't realize that prejudice was suddenly okay.
Brooklyn Nomore September 4, 2012 at 12:05 pm
the new brooklyn? how dare you. how long have you lived there and where are you from? lived in carroll gardens 55 years, gone just short of five years. neighborhood is ruined. friendly,eh? robbery and beating Chase Bank,Court and Carroll last night. numerous robberies over the last few years. what's so new about the new brooklyn> hipsters get drunk too and start brawls in the local bars, who are you trying to kid? thriving? hanley's filing for bancruptcy, communal? hardly if the longtime residents have no say in community planning because they are outnumbered.
Anthony September 4, 2012 at 02:38 pm
And for those that want to say that the new Brooklyn is so much safe than the old Brooklyn because of yuppies and hipsters, please look at this: http://parkslope.patch.com/articles/man-stabbed-outside-dizzy-s-diner
If that's not enough, shall I point you to the direction of the other police blotter items about countless muggings and robberies in broad daylight?
Mojo September 5, 2012 at 04:55 pm
Wait! I just realized that the Royal Palms is just a block down Union from the planned Dinosaur BBQ. This little shuffle board court will never draw like that place will and will cause minor inconvenience compared to the stampede that will come in and out of Dinosaur everyday. This character of this neighborhood is going to be doing a lot of changing and taking on a lot of extra traffic anyways so approve the Palms, wish them luck and move on.
SouthBrooklynLifer September 6, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Incorrect. If you look at the link below, the crime stats from our precinct going back 20 years, crime is down 76% since 1990. Those are the facts.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs076pct.pdf
BRADY October 5, 2012 at 04:05 am
all these comments remind me of the west village ''BACK IN THE DAY'' everybody sounded just like these for and against comments, old guard pushed out, and the new up and commers remaking a new and more vibrant community, bars ,restaurants,funky little shops, except now listen to the complaints about how out of control it's gotten now all of a sudden it's too crowded, too noisy, too many crowded streets

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Elizabeth Kiem June 17, 2013 at 01:58 pm
Book signing for Swing with Me in my Family Tree at the Brooklyn Farmacy on Saturday, June 22. WeRead More promise not to get the pages too sticky! 513 Henry Street, Carroll Gardens
julie June 13, 2013 at 03:36 pm
correction: 2,751 in-patient SURGERIES, not visits Plus: 261,860 out-patient visits 1,655Read More babies delivered ranked #28 out of 250 hospitals in NY http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/ny/downstate-long-island-college-hospital-6210720/details
julie June 15, 2013 at 01:05 am
The place was packed! Good food & drink, music, friends & neighbors. Had a blast!